[Paradise]

I just thought of bringing up this topic and would like your views.

Some people say that marriage is due to your kisma (fate) is this true?
Has Allah (SWT) provided a specific time or proportion in which certain events like this happen?
If so than why do some people get divorced if it was written in their kisma to marry that particular person?
Obviously they must have investigated about the person before they got married and accepted them, or is alot of this due to the individual's free-will or other circumstances in life?

Interested to hear your views.

Ws

[shiavoice]

Interesting.

I heard that, each person has three looking/finding a spouse for the person:

Yourself

Your parents/guardians

Allah (SWT)

I think it goes something like, Allah has chosen for you a spouse who was meant for you, has the qualities that are made for you in particular etc. however then we may then marry for the wrong reasons, marry somebody else rather then the right person, be it due to lust, money, blind love, we basically, do not go to the person made for us.

I remember somebody always telling me, she is in the 40's now, and she was saying to me, if only i knew about Islam when i was younger and going to get married.

Some sisters don't wear hijab until there older, that attracts certain type of people.

Some brothers go around driving and dressing in extravagance, again that brings certain types of people, and thus eventually, the spouse apportioned for us is not found rather, due to our sins and the delusions of this world, we do not get the right spouse.

But i think it goes something like that.

Wasalam-- interested in what others think.

[Paradise]

Yes, that was interesting what you have said but if a person knows that a particular person is right for them than why will they accept to marry someone else? Do you mean that their parents or family forced them to marry someone else? Because we as human beings have a conscience that should tell us if this person is right for us or not. We are all born with free-will and can choose what is good for us obviously with the help of Allah (SWT).
So really to a certain extent we as human beings are in control of our own kisma.

Ws

[zira]

Salams!

A very interesting discussion! Who we marry and why we marry depends entirely on us. We all pray for a spouse who will be a follower on the footsteps of Prophet Muhammad (saw) and his family, and will keep both happy and satisfy both of their needs and also extend a helping hand to the other in all times; being supportive and encouraging!

So when the time for marriage comes..! or when a mature man/woman asks another man/woman for marriage, it often leads to several processes before the marriage is finally decided!

Prayers, Family backgrounds, research on the other spouse and how he/she lvies his/her life! Now if we fail probably in not researching the other's background and we blindly enter a bond, then we cannot blame anyone but ourselves in such a situation. Because despite the knowledge and books available in our disposal.. we fail to read inorder to teach ourselves and prepare ourselves for such important aspects! Many books by Ayatullah Mutahheri and many other aalims are available that prepare both parties and guide them in living a life with Islam in their hearts..

I have also heard that istekharo in cases of marriage should not be done! Because in marriage it's on both parties to make it work! to sacrifice! to compromise! and to accept responsibilities! And if either of the spouse fails to, for instance; undertake responsibility! this leads to mis-communication, anger and ultimately leads to arguments! fights..! and probably is both are not ready to make a compromise.. it leads to a breakup!

During the whole course of the marriage! everything we do or say..! depends on us! is our desicion! because the Almighty has given us an incentive or initiative! He has given us speech.. with which we talk! Yes He is the Maker and hence the Controller! But how we use the speech .. whether to help or shun someone depends on our free-will and conscious as you say!

We may wonder why soo many people in the western world, choose to live with a spouse without a marriage contract! Because in these so-called 'Modern and advancing times!' People want to be 'free' and live their life as they wish!! The divorce rates have risen to speculating heights! due to diseases which are found within us!

"Marriage is half of faith"--> this is a great hadeeth with great meaning or depth! What do you think this hadeeth is implying, if i may continue with this discussion!

"And one of His signs is that He hath created for you mates of your own species that ye may find comfort and rest in their company, and (with that end i view) hath put between you love and tenderness." (30.21)

Wth salams! Hope this reply helped sister Kawther!

[SayedM'sSister]

Salam

^he means Istikhara..

Now, this is what i have learned and believe to be true, however if i am wrong please somebody correct me.

We see in the quran Allah (SWT) says:

[Shakir 30:21] And one of His signs is that He created mates for you from yourselves that you may find rest in them, and He put between you love and compassion; most surely there are signs in this for a people who reflect.

So He (SWT) is saying your spouses have been MADE from you, or you have been made from your spouse. You have been made from each other and therefore you are destined to be together in this life.

We also believe in a theory that before this life, and before we were created we were in another 'world' so to speak. And in this 'world' Allah (SWT) gave us a choice, whether we want to be created and tested on the earth, and everybody who is here said they did. Depending on our levels of faith in that 'world' we were put into the families we were put into, the religions we were put into, etc.

Some even say we chose a spouse in that 'world', and that is the spouse that is meant to be for us.

Unfortunately, (in this case only is it unfortunate) we have free will. And because of this free will Allah (SWT) does not force us into a marriage. We choose who we want to marry, in some cases our parents or families do.

However because we are fallible people, and make mistakes we are able to make a marriage miserable, while it is very capable of being a good successful one.

Again, if this sounds inacurate to anybody let me know.

Wasalam.

This post has been edited by SayedM'sSister: 01 August 2007 - 09:53 PM

[Paradise]

zira, on Jul 30 2007, 10:10 AM, said:

Salams!

A very interesting discussion! Who we marry and why we marry depends entirely on us.

The above statement is not always entirely true for everyone! Because some people even in this day and age are sometimes forced or pushed by family members or friends to marry someone that they feel are ideal for their son or daughter. For example in some really traditional families if their son or daughter are really educated and have a good job than the parents will choose someone that they want not necessarily the person themselves. The parents think that as they brought their children up than they have the full right to choose their future spouse, believe me this still happens even today. So sometimes people are pushed to marry someone that they may not have really considered. Dont get me wrong parents will always try to have the best intention for their kids but some of them become to over protective.

About the istikhira, as far as I know if someone is confused about a situation in life and this also involves marriage (which is the most important desicion one has to make in their life) than after investigations one can do a istikhira to come to a conclusion. Most scholars say this. But once an istikhira is done than its better to follow the result as you are asking Allah (SWT) for assistance.

Ws

This post has been edited by Paradise: 31 July 2007 - 06:41 PM

[SpIzo]

SayedM, on Jul 31 2007, 08:35 AM, said:

And in a lot of cases we choose the person who was not the one made from us.

This is wrong, sister.

I've discussed it here, even though I believe it's a lot more deeper than we like to think it is on the surface.

http://www.dartablig...iefs/page91.asp

[SayedM'sSister]

Salam sis

^ If you mean the post below, maybe you misunderstood me but that is precisely what i was saying in my post

http://www.aimislam....s...post&p=9583

What did i say that made you think i was saying otherwise?

Wasalam.

[SpIzo]

SayedM, on Aug 1 2007, 02:05 AM, said:

^ If you mean the post below, maybe you misunderstood me but that is precisely what i was saying in my post
What did i say that made you think i was saying otherwise?

Well, I did not say that when we end up with the wrong person, s/he isn't really the one "made" for us.

[SayedM'sSister]

Salam

I thought that this part of your post was saying that although our spouse is predestined, whether we make it work or not is up to us and our free will. If that IS what you are saying then that i what i meant by my post also, if it isn't please clarify.

Quote

Our spouse(s) are predestined but you have the freewill or the choice to make it work or not. Even to reach to them, you have to choose the path. It's like, your rizq (sustenance) is predestined but the way to get to it (either through halaal or haraam means) is totally your call. Now, whether you squander it or save it, again depends on you.

Wasalam

This post has been edited by SayedM'sSister: 01 August 2007 - 07:44 PM

[SpIzo]

SayedM, on Aug 2 2007, 01:13 AM, said:

Salam

I thought that this part of your post was saying that although our spouse is predestined, whether we make it work or not is up to us and our free will. If that IS what you are saying then that i what i meant by my post also, if it isn't please clarify.
Wasalam

The impression which I got from your post was that spouses are destined but a lot many times we chose the wrong person because they weren't made for us. I found it quite contradictory.

I was talking about making the marriage work, in general.

[SayedM'sSister]

Salam

Ah okay, i'll edit my first post then

[zira]

Assalmun alaykum,

Sister Paradise, In the book "Woman and her rights" by Allama Murtaza Mutahheri, a story is told that is quite supplementary to many ideologies about marriage regarding the part where many marry because they are forced to!

Quote

"One day a girl, who looked very pertubed, came to the Holt Prophet and said: "Oh Messenger of Allah!My father has done me a great injustice".
"What has your father done?"
"He has a nephew and he has married me to him without taking my consent".
"If so, agree to what he has done and be the wife of your cousin."
"I don't like my cousin. How can i be the wife of a person i don't like".
"Then nothing has gone wrong. If you don't like him, go and choose another person whom you like".
"By the way, I like him very much. I don't like any other person. I won't be the wife of anybody else. But, because my father gave me in marriage without taking my consent, I intentionally came over to have a talk with you. I wanted you to say what you have said. I wanted all the women to know that the fathers no longer have a right to decide as they pleased and give their daughters in marriage to whomsoever they liked."

The incident has been narrated by eminent jurists in such books of the Masalik (by Shaheed Thani) and the Jawahirul Kalam.

With salams.

[Paradise]

zira, on Aug 2 2007, 04:21 AM, said:

Assalmun alaykum,

Sister Paradise, In the book "Woman and her rights" by Allama Murtaza Mutahheri, a story is told that is quite supplementary to many ideologies about marriage regarding the part where many marry because they are forced to!
With salams.

But I guess being forced in marriage probably doesn't happen so often today as it used to be before because people nowadays can voice themselves better but saying this it does depend on each family.

Ws

[Aaliyah]

I think it is a mixture of fate and free will. I don't agree with the idea that if you marry someone, you HAVE to stay with them because it was your "destiny" to marry them. Suppose you married a jerk, what is stopping you from leaving him ? An invisible rope called fate ? You are more than able to walk out. We all have the power to pick our spouses to a degree, there isn't a line up of people with a golden ray of light over one person that you MUST marry.

[SpIzo]

Most people tend to misunderstand and take fate synonymously for divine decree. Divine decree is that in which we have no control/choice whatsoever while fate is determined by our choices; although both are interlinked.

Ultimately, it's you who decides your destiny by the choices you make. And what you choose was/is destined [even though it's not as simple as that!]. Therefore, it is said to choose and take every step, wisely and carefully. The rest should be left in the hands of Allah (SWT).

A saying of an Imam (A) goes:
The intellect is better than desire, for the intellect makes you a king over your destiny, and desire makes you a slave of your destiny.

[Paradise]

Cyan_Garamond, on Aug 31 2007, 07:49 PM, said:

No one knows in what manner and proportions God directs and man's free will leads. Imam Sadiq said free will was 3/4 and God's directive 1/4. I am not sure how and in what manner this works out; I don't think many people know either.

Interesting!

I thought that it was usually 50:50, God's will and the free will we have. But correct me if I am wrong.
I guess its upto us to choose and than if god wants it to happen it will.
I am a bit confused about the meanings of divine decree? Is it something that we dont have any control on such as when and where we are born etc? the parents we have etc??
But yes I can understand that fate depends on our choices and this can affect our future even though it maybe good or bad.

Ws