[xyz123]

hegemony is perfectly fine for those who dont know how govern themselves. I would rather live like that if i m not capable of runing civilized society. This is the exact condition our Muslim friends are in these days. As they have abondend education , progress or any sort of improvement.

I believe they will have a much better life under israel rather them governing themselves because they just are not capable of doing so. Its a fact proven that so many of these ppl have migrated to western countries and living a much affluent lives with all their rights preserved including religious ones which I m sure will not be true the other way around.

From East to West there is not a single muslim country where you find example of civil rights for ppl who are different from you.

Quit the fight admit u can t fight zionist and they will give u better civilized way of living and for your children to have a future. All current wesern ideoligies have proven that they are tolerent and preserve rights for all religious beliefs as long as you obey their governments and follow he law, as simple. why make a society under hezbola or hamas or anyone of these groups who will bring violence , oppression and death to all.

[Interpreter]

You clearly have a problem with Islam.

It is indeed a great paradox that one who respects human rights and freedoms goes on to justify the enslavement of a people against their will for a greater good that they are just too stupid to understand for themselves. My time is precious and I have no time for people who look upon others as semi-humans or as Mr. Shimon Peres put it in reference to the oppressed Palestinians, "they can just live like dogs."

This post has been edited by Interpreter: 21 July 2006 - 08:08 PM

[Umm Jibraeil]

Quote

I believe they will have a much better life under Israel rather them governing themselves because they just are not capable of doing so. Its a fact proven that so many of these ppl have migrated to western countries and living a much affluent lives with all their rights preserved including religious ones which I m sure will not be true the other way around.

That is just plain ignorant! If they lived under Israel government there would be another Palestine. They would be killed, beaten, and imprisoned. Are you nuts!

Quote

Quit the fight admit u can t fight Zionist and they will give u better civilized way of living and for your children to have a future. All current western ideologies have proven that they are tolerant and preserve rights for all religious beliefs as long as you obey their governments and follow he law, as simple.

You really don't have a clue, DO YOU! Have you ever walk in a Palestinian shoe? NO I don't think so. However when you do then we can talk. Another thing, have you ever been to Palestine? If not then maybe you need to read this book, it was written by William Baker called "Theft of a Nation". He had the courage to go and what he seen he couldn't believe. There were two Israeli soldiers taking with a New York accent, he was just observing them. Then 3 Palestinian girls no older than 10yr. old were walking and singing their national anthem. This upset the soldiers and to get back at them one soldier bashed this little girl in the head with the butt of his gun and killed her instantly. Her once white dress was now died red from her own blood. The comment to William Baker was if you want to live you’d better walk away! So don't talk about freedom of beliefs. Have you ever been oppressed? ahhhhh... DON'T THINK SO!

Quote

Quit the fight admit u can t fight Zionist and they will give u better civilized way of living and for your children to have a future.

What future? After chemical weapons? They will either be killed or physically, mentally damaged for the rest of their lives. This will effect their children and for generations to come! So please go lobby to Israel to STOP FIGHTING LIKE COWORDS AND FIGHT ARMY TO ARMY NOT ROCKETS TO CIVILIANS!

[Lebanese]

Interpreter, on Jul 21 2006, 09:02 PM, said:

You clearly have a problem with Islam.

It is indeed a great paradox that one who respects human rights and freedoms goes on to justify the enslavement of a people against their will for a greater good that they are just too stupid to understand for themselves. My time is precious and I have no time for people who look upon others as semi-humans or as Mr. Shimon Peres put it in reference to the oppressed Palestinians, "they can just live like dogs."

I think xyz123 doesn't have a problem with Islam, but with Muslims. To a limited extent, he does have a point. However, generalising is a rather ignorant way to deal with things xyz123. Lets not forget that many teachings of the West have come from Muslim scholars in relevant fields, whether it be Mathematics, Philosophy or any other field. I just personally think that many Muslims have lost their way in contemporary society where they need to adjust. I'm not saying they should change their beliefs one bit but learn how to adjust.

[Interpreter]

Read through xyz123's last post carefully and look at the choice of words. If you fail to spot where he points toward 'systems' and not persons, let me know and I will show it to you.

This post has been edited by Interpreter: 23 July 2006 - 09:55 AM

[Lebanese]

Br. Interpreter, I see how you insinuate xyz123's post to reach YOUR conclusion, however there are other ways of interpreting xyz123's post. I just don't think it's right for you to get on your high horse and make a song and dance about it. Have you noticed how the majority of people who have replied to non-Muslims on this thread have been aggressive, and the aggression has been initiated by the Muslims?

Also, I find it amusing how so many of the Shia's side themselves with Hamas now, though prior to all this they did not care about them and even disassociated themselves from them. Baffling I tell you.

This post has been edited by Lebanese: 23 July 2006 - 04:24 PM

[Sam]

Stop focusing on the small picture here. Sure, I could create a whole website with detailed pictures of all the attrocities that the Arab nation has commited against Israel and the west. (Not to mention its own people). Dont judge people who live lives on the edge. I am not saying that this is a pleasant picture to look at, but you must think of it in a greater context. Do you think that Israelies just randomly wake up in the morning and go "How can I be radical today?" Fanaticism that you see both in this picture and in parts of the Arab world are spawned quite literally from being subjected to attrocities. Everything works in a balance, crazy attitudes spawn opposite crazy ideas. My point is, dont just focus on this stupid picture. I think more than all its sad that this is what Jews and Muslims have ended up doing in this world. We live for maximum 100 years, its nothing! Its insane, that this is the only thing our people live for is death. (As ironic as that sounds)

My suggestion is to try to change your perspective, and stop demanding everything else in the world changes before you change. Ghandi said "Be the change you want to see" . Stop looking for solutions to the natural course of the way things work. You attack me, I will attack you. I can focus on how you attack me, and you can focus on how I attack you. We can do this forever. Are you worried that there are a disproportionate amount of lebanese dying? Trust me, over time. perhaps in not this war, there will be thousands of Israelies dead from even greater attacks. They never stop. This world has an equilibrium. I was reading on one of the posts here that Inshallah Israel should be destroyed. All that would do is spawn more hatred toward the Arab world, and end up in a nuclear catastrophe. At some point you have to say to yourself, enough, I am sick of fighting, I am sick of hatred, I am sick of death. I will make myself a better person.

I know I sound very presumptuous, I dont understand what people are going through, I sit comfortably in my chair in Canada, while Lebanese people are dying. But the war will eventually end up here, and we all kill ourselves in the process. The few left over, suffering from radioactive poisening. Is it really all worth it?

[Sam]

haha are you talking about Israel or Hizbollah?

Quote

Quit the fight admit u can t fight Zionist and they will give u better civilized way of living and for your children to have a future.

What future? After chemical weapons? They will either be killed or physically, mentally damaged for the rest of their lives. This will effect their children and for generations to come! So please go lobby to Israel to STOP FIGHTING LIKE COWORDS AND FIGHT ARMY TO ARMY NOT ROCKETS TO CIVILIANS![/size][/color][/font]
[/quote]

This post has been edited by Sam: 23 July 2006 - 04:51 PM

[Interpreter]

Lebanese, your inability to read through and understand a paragraph of simple English does not equate "insinuation" on the part of one who is able to do so. Grow up and stop this kiddish attitude of trying to score points. If you don't have anything constructive to say, save it for sometime more condusive for substantiative rubbish.

Welcome to the forums Sam. I agree totally that we need to find a solution to all this death and suffering across the world. I agree that the Arabs have done so much to themselves as did the Europeans in the World Wars, the equivalence of loss of lives for the latter is not equatable to any wars seen in the Arab world. The problem however, is looking at these phenomena with this "short introspective" look.

If you asked me about the Europeans during the first part of the 20th century, I would have said that they are the most barbaric, blood thirsty people on the face of this planet. However, this is not true and we should look to be more understanding and open-minded in our dealings.

[Lebanese]

Br Interpreter, I clearly understand that you are a staunch supporter of Hezbollah, and you have every right to be so and so you have let emotions get the better of you.

I'd like to ask you something "constructive", and I reckon you more or less represent the view of many Shia Muslims on this forum; what was your take on Hamas before this whole saga, and what is it now? Do you support them? Supposedly they were against the Shia's yet Hezbollah seem to have sided with them, or rather Hamas has sided with Hezbollah.

Good day

[Aaliyah]

Salam,
Children arent supposed to hate like that , how did this profound level of inhumanity get to these kids ? Most likely by their folks . Now when we see young muslim children lets take lebanese children for example and you see them hating israel i guess they have ample reason to hate them . These children are now orphans , homeless , do you expect them to have pictures of olmert with flowers around ? Well pictures with the devil ears and moustache are ok to have .
Seems the israelis are teaching hate as a precaution , how can we expect any good from the next batch of zionists when they are already ariel sharons clones ?
salam

[Interpreter]

Quote

Br Interpreter, I clearly understand that you are a staunch supporter of Hezbollah, and you have every right to be so and so you have let emotions get the better of you.

I'd like to ask you something "constructive", and I reckon you more or less represent the view of many Shia Muslims on this forum; what was your take on Hamas before this whole saga, and what is it now? Do you support them? Supposedly they were against the Shia's yet Hezbollah seem to have sided with them, or rather Hamas has sided with Hezbollah.

Good day

I guess getting answers from you should not be looked at in expectation; very well, when it suits you best. I might have grandchildren then but be sure I will do my utmost to give time to your post, God Willing.

First and foremost, I do not see my views as representative of the Shias who are present on this forum. Everyone has the ability to click on the reply button, which you are doing great injustice to at the expense of its loyalty, but in any case it is important to be clear on that one before we move on.

My dear friend, have you heard of Sheikh Ahmed Yassin? If so, please tell me how he was looked upon by the Shias.

This post has been edited by Interpreter: 23 July 2006 - 09:20 PM

[James]

Sarah, on Jul 19 2006, 09:45 AM, said:

Quote

Hi Guardian. Of course it is not hate to wish the end of an oppressive regime. I am well aware that Zionists have caused much death and destruction. But it is hatefull to say that every Zionist who belives it is there right to have community in Palestine should be 'Wiped off the face of the earth'.

I find this statement contradicting. You're aware of their deeds and killings, yet you still thinks it is hateful to have the statement? Or does the "wiped off the earth" remark just offend you?

I don’t see why you find it contradicting. I know that some Zionist have been heavy handed and are guilty of murder... But so are some Lebanese. 1) I do find it offensive to use the term "wiped off the earth" it is so ignorant and debased, grouping all Zionist together and wishing them all gone is inhumane, 2) However it is totally reasonable to say that those Zionist (or Lebanese) who have committed unnecessary pain and suffering be held accountable. How do points 1 and 2 contradict themselves?

It seems that this whole thing is down to 'tit-for-tat' rhetoric, both sides believing they have the unquestionable moral and/or spiritual right to act the way they do and each side getting more moral indignant with time.
This war will go one, then more will get involved, eventually it will calm down only then to start up again a few years later. Both sides need a reality check.

[Zuljenah]

Quote

I don’t see why you find it contradicting. I know that some Zionist have been heavy handed and are guilty of murder... But so are some Lebanese. 1) I do find it offensive to use the term "wiped off the earth" it is so ignorant and debased, grouping all Zionist together and wishing them all gone is inhumane, 2) However it is totally reasonable to say that those Zionist (or Lebanese) who have committed unnecessary pain and suffering be held accountable. How do points 1 and 2 contradict themselves?

I'm sorry if my comment offended you. I didn't say "May all Jews be wiped off the earth." I said Zionists. Not all Jews are Zionists and not all Zionists are Jews. And I am still not regretful for having said what I said, because zionism is racism against Arabs/Muslims in Palestine. There has been systematic killings of Palestinians (innocent men, women and children) for many, many years, since Zionism ideology was created. If zionism didn't exist, I don't think we'd have many of the problems we do. Hence, I would like to see zionism gone.

[Umm Jibraeil]

Sam, on Jul 23 2006, 04:49 PM, said:

haha are you talking about Israel or Hizbollah?

Quote

Quit the fight admit u can t fight Zionist and they will give u better civilized way of living and for your children to have a future.

What future? After chemical weapons? They will either be killed or physically, mentally damaged for the rest of their lives. This will effect their children and for generations to come! So please go lobby to Israel to STOP FIGHTING LIKE COWORDS AND FIGHT ARMY TO ARMY NOT ROCKETS TO CIVILIANS![/size][/color][/font]

[/quote]
That quote wasn't mine it was someone elses quote, you need to read all the posts to understand were I got that from My point was very clear.

[Servant of Mehdi]

xyz123, on Jul 21 2006, 07:58 PM, said:

It s not wise to suggest that Americans and Israelis are trying to take over the World like the ones which came before them. They can easily do so if they wanted to.
Till muslims don't understand that there is no answer in physical resistance to these overly powerful ppl, they have to educate themselves and industrialize themselves to compete, look what China has done, look what India has done, then only respect will come.

Thy plan is peace and harmony!

Sorry bro, disagree with you there, it is not as black and white as that. It is not easy for them to take over the world, as other countries possess nuclear warheads which can be used against America and Israel and wipe them off the map.

There are more Muslims’ in India than Pakistan, just thought you would like to know that.

Indeed education is vital for the better of Mankind, education is the only way forward.

The Quran has in many verses talked about the importance of knowledge, here is one example:
{35:28} And of men and beasts and cattle are various species of it likewise; those of His servants only who are possessed of knowledge fear Allah; surely Allah is Mighty, Forgiving.


Here are some Sayings Prophet Muhammed

To acquire knowledge is binding upon all Muslims, whether male or female.

The ink of the scholar is more holy than the blood of the martyr.

He who travels in the search of knowledge, to him God shows the way of Paradise.

Acquire knowledge, because he who acquires it, in the way of the Lord, performs an act of piety; who speaks of it praises the Lord; who seeks it, adores God, who dispenses instruction in it, bestows alms; and who imparts it to its fitting objects, performs an act of devotion to God.

Knowledge enables its possessor to distinguish what is forbidden from what is not; lights the way to Heaven; it is our friend in the desert, our companion in solitude, our companion, when bereft of friends; it guides us to happiness; it sustains us in misery; it is our ornament in the company of friends; it serves as an armor against our enemies.

With knowledge the creatures of Allah rises to the heights of goodness and to noble position, associates with the sovereigns in this world and attains the perfection of happiness in the next..

Sam, on Jul 23 2006, 05:36 PM, said:

Stop focusing on the small picture here. Sure, I could create a whole website with detailed pictures of all the attrocities that the Arab nation has commited against Israel and the west. (Not to mention its own people). Dont judge people who live lives on the edge. I am not saying that this is a pleasant picture to look at, but you must think of it in a greater context. Do you think that Israelies just randomly wake up in the morning and go "How can I be radical today?" Fanaticism that you see both in this picture and in parts of the Arab world are spawned quite literally from being subjected to attrocities. Everything works in a balance, crazy attitudes spawn opposite crazy ideas. My point is, dont just focus on this stupid picture. I think more than all its sad that this is what Jews and Muslims have ended up doing in this world. We live for maximum 100 years, its nothing! Its insane, that this is the only thing our people live for is death. (As ironic as that sounds)

My suggestion is to try to change your perspective, and stop demanding everything else in the world changes before you change. Ghandi said "Be the change you want to see" . Stop looking for solutions to the natural course of the way things work. You attack me, I will attack you. I can focus on how you attack me, and you can focus on how I attack you. We can do this forever. Are you worried that there are a disproportionate amount of lebanese dying? Trust me, over time. perhaps in not this war, there will be thousands of Israelies dead from even greater attacks. They never stop. This world has an equilibrium. I was reading on one of the posts here that Inshallah Israel should be destroyed. All that would do is spawn more hatred toward the Arab world, and end up in a nuclear catastrophe. At some point you have to say to yourself, enough, I am sick of fighting, I am sick of hatred, I am sick of death. I will make myself a better person.

I know I sound very presumptuous, I dont understand what people are going through, I sit comfortably in my chair in Canada, while Lebanese people are dying. But the war will eventually end up here, and we all kill ourselves in the process. The few left over, suffering from radioactive poisening. Is it really all worth it?

Bro you got a point there. However if the root is unclean then the stem and the leaves will also be dirty. By this I mean there will never be peace between Israel and the Arab world. Due to the root of the problem being , Jews migrating to what now is called Israel, settling there and removing the Arabs from their homeland. There will never be peace.

Lebanese, on Jul 23 2006, 09:33 PM, said:

Br Interpreter, I clearly understand that you are a staunch supporter of Hezbollah, and you have every right to be so and so you have let emotions get the better of you.

I'd like to ask you something "constructive", and I reckon you more or less represent the view of many Shia Muslims on this forum; what was your take on Hamas before this whole saga, and what is it now? Do you support them? Supposedly they were against the Shia's yet Hezbollah seem to have sided with them, or rather Hamas has sided with Hezbollah.

Good day

Supposedly they were against the Shia’s, are they or not?

[muhammadnaqvi786]

wah servant of mehdi a very good analysis of the situation and well layed out, extremly good example of the plant mashallah

[Fatimeh]

those pics r truely sickening, it proves again, how inhuman these people are, full of hate...its so disgusting!!

[Nasrallah]

Bismillah

There has been a great deal of injustice done by certain people on this thread, maybe due to ignorance, hate, political inclinations e.t.c. Nevertheless, by the grace of God, the believer is told of a reality in the Holy Quran, that is, falsehood is continuously vanishing and the truth is ever-prevailing. As limited as this forum may be, in terms of the extent to which a message could reach the people, I will qoute from the honourable leader of resistance in Lebanon, to hopefully illuminate the truth within this forum and end this matter; "We do not want to kill anyone. We do not want to throw anyone in the sea. Give the houses back to their owners, the fields back to their landlords, and the homes back to their people. Release the prisoners, and leave us to live in this region in security, peace and dignity"

ws

[hbs]

xyz123, on Jul 21 2006, 08:53 PM, said:

hegemony is perfectly fine for those who dont know how govern themselves. I would rather live like that if i m not capable of runing civilized society. This is the exact condition our Muslim friends are in these days. As they have abondend education , progress or any sort of improvement.

I believe they will have a much better life under israel rather them governing themselves because they just are not capable of doing so. Its a fact proven that so many of these ppl have migrated to western countries and living a much affluent lives with all their rights preserved including religious ones which I m sure will not be true the other way around.

From East to West there is not a single muslim country where you find example of civil rights for ppl who are different from you.

Quit the fight admit u can t fight zionist and they will give u better civilized way of living and for your children to have a future. All current wesern ideoligies have proven that they are tolerent and preserve rights for all religious beliefs as long as you obey their governments and follow he law, as simple. why make a society under hezbola or hamas or anyone of these groups who will bring violence , oppression and death to all.